Where the Reiners’ bodies were found and how long they were dead – latest on Nick Reiner case
Hey guys, thanks so much for checking out my show. Um, I really really appreciate it. Uh, please click to subscribe. Appreciate all the support. I’m getting into the latest uh details now in the murders of um Rob and Michelle Reiner. Uh, everything that happened with their son Nick Reiner being in court.
Uh, he was in a full like anti-suicide vest. And then also all the new information that I’m finding out about the timeline of what actually happened leading up to these murders, what time the murders may have happened, and how we can actually determine uh timing on all of that. I’ve got um a great guest.
Moren’s going to be on with me again. Um the uh former FBI agent who actually has really deep sources in LA. So I’m getting into all the latest in this episode, Brian Anton Investigates. Hey guys. Uh, so I’m going to go through all the latest developments in the murder of Rob Reiner and his wife Michelle.
Um, there are new details that have been trickling out all day long. Uh, first of all, this is video from inside Nick Reiner’s court appearance. Uh, you can see the judge. You can see his attorney, Alan Jackson, also in court. Um, but there was no video feed of Nick Reiner, and we weren’t sure before how this was going to work out. But it turns out there was not a shot of Nick Reiner.
They didn’t allow us to shoot Nick Reiner. Um, he was in a full suicide prevention vest. Uh, and he just stood there and listened. And the vest was interesting. I mean, it basically went from up near his neck all the way down almost to his knees. And it didn’t appear he really had any clothes on underneath the vest.
So, he was in the suicide prevention fest. Uh, the hearing was only a few minutes long, very, very short. Alan Jackson asked for a continuence. said that it was too early to enter a plea of guilty uh or not guilty. And then the judge set the next hearing for January 7th. Uh this is what Riner’s attorney, Alan Jackson, said uh right out right after court when he came outside the courthouse.
>> Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Um I just have a couple of quick words. First of all, and and most importantly, this is a devastating tragedy that has befallen the Reiner family. We all recognize that. Uh our hearts go out to the entire Riner family. There are very very complex and serious issues that are associated with this case.
These need to be thoroughly but very carefully dealt with uh and examined and looked at and analyzed. And we ask that during this process you allow the system to move forward in the way that it was designed to move forward. Not with a rush to judgment, not with jumping to conclusions, but with restraint and with dignity and with the respect that this system and this process deserves and that the family deserves.
So with that, uh we are set for January 7th for an arraignment. That’s the next court date. Uh and that’s all I have to say at this point. Uh there may be more at some other point, but today uh we’re going to rest on on where we stand stand procedurally, which is this was a continuence of arraignment. Uh nothing happened today substantively.
We’ll be back for an arraignment in the same department on the 7th of January. We’ll see you then. >> So, just a reminder, Alan Jackson uh is a high-profile attorney who recently represented Karen Reed in Massachusetts. Uh he’s known to be a very very good attorney. Everybody in LA knows him and really all over the country now because it’s of Karen Reed and so many other I mean Kevin Spacy um Harvey Weinstein.
I mean he’s represented a lot of uh well-known celebrity clients. He’s also known to do his own investigation into cases uh which is perhaps why we saw him outside the Riner home yesterday. I remember we were out there we saw him come by two different times. He went inside um and we don’t know exactly why.
Uh but again, I’m told that he’s known to sort of do his own detective work when he starts working on some of these criminal cases. Uh back to court though, again, very quick hearing. I think the main thing was that Nick Riner was there. We saw him in a suicide vest, but again, we weren’t able to show it on video.
Uh the whole suicide vest though thing, it could explain why he was not at his scheduled hearing yesterday. Remember, they had to push it back a day. Uh there’s some new details coming out uh about that. And and there’s also some new details coming out about what actually led up to the murders. Uh according to the LA Times, Nick Riner was living in a guest house on his parents’ property.
Uh and his family had become increasingly concerned about his mental health in the last few weeks. Uh but but there’s reporting now that nothing indicated Riner would be capable of this kind of violence. That is what family friends are saying. It’s not like his parents were worried that this was going to somehow escalate to this level of of violence.
Uh, the Wall Street Journal is reporting that at Conan O’Brien’s Christmas party on Saturday night, uh, Nick went up to comedian Bill her and asked a series of strange questions like, “What’s your name? What’s your last name? Are you famous?” It was apparently just awkward and strange. And Nick had also been asking other high-profile people at the same party uh, similar questions.
It remains unclear up until now when the Rhiners were murdered. Uh the New York Times is reporting on Sunday afternoon a massage therapist showed up at the house for an appointment with Rob and Michelle Riner. And when no one answered at the gate, uh the Times is reporting that the therapist called the Riner’s daughter, Romy.
She lives across the street, I was told, when I was out there, and she quickly showed up to the house, had a run across the street, and had a roommate with her. Uh and that’s when she went inside and found her father’s body and found just the awful scene. Uh the New York Times reports that Romy ran outside of the house. Her roommate then was was waiting out there and called 911.
Uh and Romy did not see her mother’s body in the house, but then later learned from paramedics outside that her mom was dead uh too. So just terrible to think about. Um Nick Reiner was arrested about 15 miles away. Um still unclear exactly 15 minutes away or so. Still unclear exactly how police knew um where he was. Uh these are photos that the LAPD released taken when they took Nick into custody.
Um and there’s also um this new surveillance video that was taken before Nick was arrested that shows him inside a gas station. I’m I’m going to discuss this with my guest in a minute. Um what his demeanor could indicate there, but you can see him going into the store and then you see him leaving the store. And again, we don’t know the timeline of exactly when the Riners were killed and when their son allegedly went to the hotel.
Was it right after the murders? Um, we don’t know. We don’t know exactly when he checked into the hotel in Santa Monica. We are told he used his own credit card and he used his own name for a one night stay. Uh, it’s now going to be up to the coroner to determine when the Riners died and whether it was, you know, late Saturday night, Sunday morning.
My guest has a really really interesting perspective on that coming up in a minute about um like how they determine that. Uh Jake Reiner and Romy Riner, Rob and Michelle’s kids, um they released uh a statement that I want to read to you here. Really, really sad. Um got to imagine what the situation they’re in right now dealing with their brother and their parents being dead.
It says, “Words cannot even begin to describe the unimaginable pain we are experiencing every moment of the day. The horrific and devastating loss of our parents, Rob and Michelle Reiner, is something that no one should ever experience. They weren’t just our parents. They were our best friends. We are grateful for the outpouring of condolences, kindness, and support we’ve received, not only from family and friends, but people from all walks of life.
We now ask for respect and privacy, for speculation to be tempered with compassion and humanity, and for our parents to be remembered for the incredible lives they lived and the love um they gave. So again, everybody I think everybody’s heart just goes out to them and you think about the strange situation they’re in now.
Um you know, their parents are dead, their brother accused of the murder. Still a lot of questions about who’s paying for the you know, high-powered, very expensive attorney. Um but uh you know, the statement is really just um obviously really heartbreaking. I’m joined now by Moren O’Connell, uh, former FBI agent and also um, co-host with Jim Clemente of the podcast, uh, best case, worst case.
It’s good to see you again, uh, Moren, the medical examiner has come back and said that it was multiple sharp force injuries was the cause of death. What does that mean to you? >> Uh, it means it they they were stabbed multiple times each. And that could also mean, you know, the throat was slashed and then then they were stabbed multiple times.
It could mean anything along those lines. >> What we heard initially was that the throat was slashed, but I guess if they’re saying multiple, could that I guess the throat was slashed and then also other stab wounds, you think? >> Right. It could be, you know, his his rage was such that he cut the cut their throats or cut let’s say talked about his dad first, cut his father’s throat and then, you know, sort of um um stopping the threat of his dad fighting back with him and then went back and stabbed him multiple times in a fit of
rage. >> There’s been some reports that um they were stabbed in bed. Uh and what would that mean? I mean, I guess would that would that mean premeditation? Like you thought about it cuz the person was going to be asleep. >> It’s absolutely premeditation. And it’s also attacking someone who is not in a position to defend themselves.
Um, and I mean where is there a place that you feel more safe than snuggled in your bed and then to be attacked like that? It’s just beyond belief. What do you think about the They haven’t released many details about the timeline, but where does your mind go with timeline here? I mean, do you think this happened right after the Conan O’Brien party? Like, how do you think this played out? >> I would say it happened within hours of that Conan O’Brien party, within hours of them returning home, and he just couldn’t take it. that he was um
embarrassed again in front of people and his father took the side of the people he was fighting with instead of taking his side and he just got all lthered up and you know he could have gone into his his um into the guest house first before he came back. I don’t know. I I had this sense initially that it happened in the kitchen, but now knowing that it that they had been dead for some time, it’s making me think more and more that it was late at night after the after the party because I we heard also remember
um Brian, we heard that the daughter couldn’t get in touch with them for a while, so she went over there to see >> Yeah. And the and the new reporting today is that she saw her dad um and and then ran out and it was the paramedics who later told her about her mom, which is just so sad to think about. >> Unbelievable.
And I’m wondering if that lady in the brown that we saw yesterday walking up and down, I wonder is that her roommate? >> I was wondering if that was some kind of assistant. Um cuz she didn’t really look that emotional. I don’t know. So, she kind of seemed like she was on a mission to me to like go get stuff. >> Me, too. Me, too. >> I kind of thought maybe that was like the lawyer’s assistant or someone’s assistant, but I have I have no idea.
There was It was interesting to see that action outside the house, though. >> Yeah. >> Um, in in terms of an insanity defense, do you think that’s what is being set up here? >> Yes. And I think the first salvo was when they said he’s on suicide watch. you know, why didn’t he commit suicide before he committed a double homicide? I just think when you look at the videos of him and you hear a lot of the way he talks, yeah, there’s mental health issues, but for him to I know exactly where that gas station is that he walked
- For him to walk there, he doesn’t look like he has a care in the world and then he could have easily then walked all the way to that hotel. Then he gets to the hotel and he has the presence of mind to put those sheets up on the window, which all my contacts at the hotels are telling me that’s what people do when they’re just planning a bender, like a three-day bender on on drugs, lots of cocaine.
I don’t know why you would put sheets on the window for cocaine, but okay. And then um take a shower because he didn’t want to be uncomfortable with dried blood on him. So he took a nice shower. He understood that. He understood he had to create distance between him and the crimes. And then he decided it was time to go score some dope in my opinion.
So he took the metro in Santa Monica over near USC, got off and you know went into that convenience store probably after or maybe before he scored some dope and he was getting ready. All right y’all gather around because Monaet Exchange from Sibling Rivalry is here with an announcement. This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Google Gemini.
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Visit gemini.google/ students to learn more and sign up. Terms apply. You’ll notice they talked about LAPD talked about a narcotics unit going after him. I think that that was a brilliant move on the part of uh LAPD. And I’ll tell you why. Because those narco guys, I was I worked narcotics for 19 years. They know exactly where to go.
They know where these guys are slinging dope and they know where this guy is going to go to get it. And the way they know that is because he’s probably been arrested multiple times in in certain very small areas when he’s scoring dope when he’s um you know throughout his life when he’s been doing this stuff.
So if you run someone’s name in the system, you can you can find out obviously where they’ve been arrested, how long ago it was, who was with them, etc. So they can see um oh yeah, let’s say he was arrested one time with a guy named John Doe and John Doe slings dope on the corner of Florence and Normandy or whatever.
And that’s where um that’s where they went to look for him. And sure enough, they found him cuz they found him they found him pretty quickly considering considering he was on foot. >> I was wondering how they would find him so quickly on foot like that just on the side of the road. You think someone called it in? >> Yeah.
Well, they figured, hey, every time we catch him or And I’m just I’m just guessing based on my personal experience working narcotics. They probably said, you know, three out of the 10 times we arrested this guy, he was found right here in the same spot. So, let’s put a team over there. The other time he was right over there by USC and on the other occasion he was getting off the metro.
So they probably guessed he went, especially when they found out what hotel he was in. They knew he went to that hotel because he could take the metro because his family said he didn’t drive or ex I guess his family friends told me he didn’t drive uh as as a general rule. So >> that makes sense then that he would take the metro.
>> And it’s a great way to get out of dodge quickly. >> Yeah. Yeah. the the reports of all the blood in the hotel room. Um, I mean, it’s gruesome to talk about, but I guess I’m just trying to understand if the stabbing happened at their house, why would there be so much blood in the hotel? Well, if he if he stabbed them without a winter jack, without his jacket on, because we saw him wearing, you know, those jacket things, whatever they were, he would have blood all over his clothing and it would still be wet to a
certain extent. And if he was, let’s say, who knows, maybe he already had a little bit of dope on him and he was laying on the bed just getting high, enjoying a buzz and rolling around or whatever. or he took his clothes off, threw him on the bed to take a shower, then he comes out, lays on the bed, and he’s wet.
And who knows how thorough of a shower he took or um they to have to have blood on the linens could also mean the towels. So, he could have walked in, washed his hands, grabbed a hand towel, which are usually white, and dried his hands off and arms and then realized, “Oh, I still have blood on my on my arms. I just washed my hands.
I got to take a shower. I got to whatever it is. And then if he doesn’t take a thorough shower and he gets out, you know, he he may not realize how much blood he has in his hair or uh and you know, he’s got that thick black hair. He could have had way more blood in his hair than he thought.
And maybe in washing his face, he just got his hair wet and didn’t wash his hair cuz he was planning on going downtown anyways. And who wants to be out all night? He’s he he was homeless. He knows going out all night with a wet head of hair, you’re going to freeze. and he doesn’t he may not want to check in any place else because he’s on the run.
So, he may have just gotten his hair wet in the shower just from taking a general shower and then realized there was hair all over it or blood all over. It could have just been blood on the pillowcase from that. It could have been blood on a hand towel from that or he laid on the sheets to cop a buzz after he got out of the shower and he didn’t do a good job.
There there’s a lot of things. And then he took that top sheet, I believe it was a top sheet, and put it up over the windows >> just to block people from seeing inside. >> Block people from seeing inside or any Yeah. Just, you know, they they they like the cocoon um feeling, >> do you think? >> But they all have blackout curtains, so that’s kind of weird, you know.
>> Yeah. >> Think of a hotel room that doesn’t have blackout curtains. I can’t think of one. Do you think that he um really thought he was going to get away with this or was he just on a bender and like not really thinking that clearly? >> I don’t know. I don’t know him. Um I would say he realized he was in a in a world of hurt because he was he was that little bit of distance wasn’t enough.
He had to he just probably felt like he had to go to ground and he would figure it out. But then he realized the only people that were really going to help him would be his parents and that wasn’t going to work anymore. >> And I did hear initially that he put his house up for um uh to secure a bond, but the family rejected that, but I haven’t seen that corroborated anywhere.
>> Have you heard anything from your sources about the state of the bodies, like how long they may have been dead? Um >> I just heard that it was a while. It was longer than originally thought. That’s all I heard. So, I don’t know that that’s not very definitive. >> Can they tell though like if it’s been I mean, can they actually tell the difference between like 2 4 6 8 hours? >> Yes, absolutely.
100% and LA’s got the greatest memes and the detectives are good. See, the the blood will coagulate at a certain rate based on the temperature. the blood will have a a a thick um like the top of it will dry first. Um even if even if blood is mixed together, it it it will it will just coagulate very nicely and in a very uniform way based on the conditions within the house and that’s humidity, heat, you know, the floors could be colder.
So all that is taken into um uh into account and also the temperature of the liver is is is a great uh determinant factor. also levidity. They’ll be able to see uh the blood will settle within the body and turn purple, yellow, green, whatever those colors are depending on how long it’s been there. That’s one of the ways you can determine if in fact the h the bodies were moved later.
So if you have a body that um that has a bunch of levidity on the back, but the victim is on its stomach, that body was moved. um all the blood settled and and and really settled into the body and then it was flipped over onto its stomach and at that point it was no longer, you know, pulsating through the system. So, it’s going to stay stuck in that in that situation.
>> In terms of DNA, is that not really going to be that helpful to prosecutors because he lived there? >> No, it’s going to be super duper helpful. >> It will. I absolutely. >> But why? Because couldn’t his defense just say, “Well, he lived there. Of course, his DNA is everywhere.” >> I’m talking about blood mixed in with the blood on scene.
When you when you attack someone with a knife, unless it has a hilt on it, and for those that don’t know what a hilt is, I’m looking to see if I have a knife with a hilt, and I I do not. But a hilt is that um it would be like that um metal piece like this on a um on a knife. And this hilt stops your hand from sliding forward onto the blade when you’re in a fight.
When you’re in a knife fight, uh, a KBAR knife has a hilt on it. That’s the one that was used in the um Idaho killings. >> That one had a hilt on it, but he still cut his hand because when you’re in a knife fight, there is a very good chance that you are going to cut yourself. >> He was probably fighting with his father.
His father was a big, strong man. His mother looked like she was in great shape. They both did yoga all the time. It probably wasn’t as easy as some might think unless they were sound asleep. But even still, if he was stabbing them afterwards multiple times, there’s a very good chance that he cut himself.
So now we have even if we even if we don’t find the weapon, you’ll have his blood and let’s say his father’s blood mixed together and coagulated together. It’s not in a place where you could. So if if if there’s a let’s say there’s a puddle of blood and they’re and and Allan Jackson is trying to say, “Oh, they came back and poured blood over it just like they did in the OJ case.
” It that isn’t what happens because the first blood will have that coating on top as it begins to coagulate and it the blood will almost be in a separate layer. So, if if you have Nick’s blood mixed in with his mom’s blood and it’s all in the same um you know, it’s [clears throat] all in the same puddle, let’s say. There there’s no way you can say that he was not there and he or that there’s no way that you cannot say that he wasn’t there and bleeding at the exact same time that those people died.
And there’s really only one reason that someone’s going to be bleeding like that when someone is being stabbed. And then the other reason it’s going to be important is because there’s a thing in um forensics called voids. So if um if there’s uh a big bloody battle, we’re going to look at the shoe impressions or the foot impressions on the ground because often times the defense will say, “Oh, there was another person there.
He just happened to be standing there and he was trying to defend his parents.” Well, there’s no footprints, no shoe impressions, and the blood pattern completely contradicts what you say because the blood pattern will show over and over and over, cast off blood all over the floor, and it will only show the th their three footprints.
If, let’s say, they were all in the kitchen fighting, you’d be able to determine that it was just those three people in the kitchen fighting with the knife. Does that make sense? >> Yeah, I know it makes sense. I’m wondering if the defense could be though if they were in the bed. Could Could they say, “Well, he came home, he found them stabbed in the bed, freaked out, and and you know, went on this drug bender cuz he’s got all these issues and went to the hotel and was just in a state of shock.” I mean, you think that
>> No, because I think they’re going to find his blood, too. And the other thing is, don’t forget bloody fingerprints. Once once he’s in that battle, you could have Nick’s fingerprints with his father’s blood on the countertop or Nick’s fingers with his mother’s blood and his father’s blood on a countertop.
That puts all three of them in the exact same location at the exact moment of the attack. It’s indisputable. That’s what I’m hoping for. when you’ve worked cases with, you know, I mean, this is going to be a strange family dynamic because his he’s got these siblings now and he killed allegedly killed their parents, but I don’t know if they’re still somewhat supportive of their brother or I don’t know, you know, because I have no idea.
But how how do you think that’s going to work? I mean, are they going to based on what you know, >> are going to be messy. >> Are they going to come around and want to pay for the lawyer or like how play out, do you think? >> Absolutely not. Why would they? You know, because they might say, you know, some people might say, well, Michelle and Rob Reiner did everything they possibly could for their son, and I’m sure they would want their siblings to help him even now because he has mental illness.
I I don’t know about that. And the reason I say that, Brian, is because my my thought is this. If they could do that to their parents, they could do it to anyone, including their siblings or his nieces or nephews or anyone. And I don’t think their parents would sacrifice one child for the other two. And I don’t see any way those two kids are ever going to come back from this.
This is trauma, especially for Romy, the daughter. I no for both of them but Romy saw it so that was awful. >> Yeah, terrible. As always, I appreciate Moren uh for talking with me. She’s always such an interesting um sort of just like has such an interesting take on all these things because her career for so long in the FBI and just how many people she knows in LA because that’s where she was an FBI agent at the end of her career.
So, I appreciate her for talking with me. I’m going to obviously stay on top of everything that has to do with the Ryer murders. I’ll keep you guys posted. And uh I’m going to start working also on the um situation of Brown University now. So I’ll have an episode on that coming up tomorrow because that story has just gotten crazy.
More photos released of person of interest. Still no arrests. Everybody’s on edge. So uh I’ll have more on Brown tomorrow and I’ll let you know if anything develops with um the RER murders. All right. Thank you guys for watching. Appreciate everybody for scribe for subscribing. Uh sorry I’m barely talk. I’m so tired. It’s been a long week. Um have a good night, guys.
